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A basic Guide to Using Veg oils as Fuel.


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Black Gold!!!!

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It's settled for 2 weeks in the 44.. Pulled 20L off the top and into the top container.

That's trickling into the shopping bag filter with 20 rare earth magnets in it.. (f-ing strong. Each has a 3kg pulling power..)

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Then into the next bottle and threw a 1 micron poly woven filter..

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And into a clean holding drum ready for use.

Going to start at 25%.

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Not boring us at all. In fact I'm thinking of giving it a try in the gu2.8 I'm sure I will have some questions shortly. Tipsy-tap

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Thanks for the pics.

Still trying to mentally work out how I will set all this up.

What do people normally do for containers? The pics have some ones looking like they were bought for the purpose. Do people use the ones the oil came in?

Glort, you mentioned you had 2000l and more at one point. Did you have 100x 20l drums in the backyard? 2000l tank? 200 drums?

I get the impression 200l drums are left open for ease of inspecting the oil? Isn't it impractical?

Trying to work out how I will keep young children out of the mix!

Tipsy-tap

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First up as Glort has mentioned you need to find your source..

I've gone the black diesel (WMO) route as WVO was impossible to get in my town. A pig farmer had stitched up the whole town... But WMO is easy to get as the companies have to pay for it to be removed..

As for bottles I've just grabbed a few freebies to start untill I have a system which works and I am happy with, then I'll make it more permanent setup..

If you want to use steel drums it's best to see either an oil supply depo or mechanic for clean, new drums. Or a paint shop and ask for new thinners tins.

As for bulging storage, you can get a 1000L bulker drums (1M cubes) and are usually expensive but if you see a local farm supply depo you might get lucky.

So what are you looking at doing?

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After reading through this thread I'm feeling brave enough to try waste veg oil at around 60%. Start small and ramp up upon success.

I have a gu 2.8.

I have noted his order of planning. Still mentally piecing it together. Hope to get away with no spillage, and keep the kids out.

What do pig farmers use it for? Spread over the feed?

Post up some pics of the goop the magnets catch. Used to have an extra oil filter on a 4cyl car. The filter took what looked to be a toilet roll without a centre. When you changed the filter visible metal particles could be seen on the filter material.

Tipsy-tap

Edited by P4trol
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A pig farmer had stitched up the whole town...

Whoa !!!! :o

There is soon going to be a lot of veg available westy.

It is HIGHLY illegal to feed waste Veg to pigs and for good reason.

All sorts of diseases and bacteria etc can be passed on through this.

I'm not one for dobbing people in but I would say for the sake of many peoples health, you have a duty to notify your nearest Department of agriculture about this. It's the equivalent of growing fruit and veg in human Chit.

I can't believe that this farmer is doing this. It's a huge public health risk. It could be you , me or one of our families that get something let alone anyone one else.

PLEASE let your local Dept of agriculture know about this and pass on all the info you can. It's a very serious matter and literally people could get bloody sick or die from it.

Obviously if this is legit and not a public health risk the guy doing it won't have a thing to worry about but if they do take action it would be for bloody good reason. The guy doing it would have to know how wrong it is and why. Obviously he's a greedy Crunt that puts his own profit above peoples health.

I can't stress how serious this is.

You really need to notify the authorities about it ASAP for everyones sake.

Please!

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What do people normally do for containers? The pics have some ones looking like they were bought for the purpose. Do people use the ones the oil came in?

For finished oil ready to pour into the fuel tank I use the same 25L plastic drum that Westy is using in his pics. These are often found in qty at the back of the restaruants where they contained dish washing liquid, floor cleaner, grill cleaner Disinfectant and other such chemicals.

Empty out the remaining contents ( you might keep the mrs in industrial strength dishwashing liquid.) Wash the drums thoroughly and dry them in the sun. Don 't forget to do inside the lids as well.

Usually oil comes in tins which hold water that gets sucked into the il as the drums cool and create a vaccumm inside, rust and are pains to get rid of when empty. Some of the Malaysian oils come in plastic containers that don't stack well and are not very strong as well as quickly being affected by sun.

Glort, you mentioned you had 2000l and more at one point. Did you have 100x 20l drums in the backyard? 2000l tank? 200 drums?

HAHA! I had over 6000L at one point but.... When I started out collecting oil before I had a vehicle to run it in I had over 100 20L tins. Didn't those bastards take some crushing and getting rid of.

Next I want to '44's which soon surrounded the back yard and side of the house. They too rusted and the lids froze and were neither big enough of space efficent.

I then went to the square IBC's and have 6 of those now although not all are full. I still have some of the blue plastic '44's which are about 220-230L in fact. Being plastic these are much better to use for several reason I won't bore you with now. Suffice to say, it's much better to keep veg n plastic rather than metal.

IBC"s are much cheaper these days. You can often pick them up for $20-30 from places like importers that get stuff like Olives and syrups and chemicals in them. Printer get a heap with inks and solvents in them. Also look on ebay under IBC, 1000L tank, Bulk tank etc. There are loads of people selling them. I have a place that will give me all I want for free to get rid of them. They get half a dozen a week.

I get the impression 200l drums are left open for ease of inspecting the oil? Isn't it impractical?

Nooooo!

Never leave them open. the oil deteriorates when stored in the presence of oxygen. also the bugs and water get in.

If you want to inspect a drum, take the lid off and put it back when you are done.

Trying to work out how I will keep young children out of the mix!

Never a problem I had. My kids never liked it being either slippery or sticky.

Like everything it's how you set your storage and processes up.

One tip I'll give you is double valve everything. You might only need one valve between two points you want to send the oil but put a valve on each end. It can either be damned convinent in the long run or save you from disaster should something go wrong.

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Whoa !!!! :o

There is soon going to be a lot of veg available westy.

It is HIGHLY illegal to feed waste Veg to pigs and for good reason.

All sorts of diseases and bacteria etc can be passed on through this.

I'm not one for dobbing people in but I would say for the sake of many peoples health, you have a duty to notify your nearest Department of agriculture about this. It's the equivalent of growing fruit and veg in human Chit.

I can't believe that this farmer is doing this. It's a huge public health risk. It could be you , me or one of our families that get something let alone anyone one else.

PLEASE let your local Dept of agriculture know about this and pass on all the info you can. It's a very serious matter and literally people could get bloody sick or die from it.

Obviously if this is legit and not a public health risk the guy doing it won't have a thing to worry about but if they do take action it would be for bloody good reason. The guy doing it would have to know how wrong it is and why. Obviously he's a greedy Crunt that puts his own profit above peoples health.

I can't stress how serious this is.

You really need to notify the authorities about it ASAP for everyones sake.

Please!

Or he could be using it to simply power his tractor?! (pig farmer probably has the room required to store large amounts of waste oil - and can probably use it in his trucks etc)

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Or he could be using it to simply power his tractor?! (pig farmer probably has the room required to store large amounts of waste oil - and can probably use it in his trucks etc)

Yes, he could be using it in his vehicles.

I find that to be a far less likley scenario to him just feeding it to the pigs though.

Very few people are prepared to put the time and effort into the processing of Veg as oil or bio and if he is getting all the oil from even a reasonably sized country town, That would have to be in the vicinity of 500-1000L a week.

That is a lot of oil to burn in a tractor or truck every week for a farmer whos product is not cropping.

The diseses that can eventuate through feeding pigs this stuff is scary. I was told all about it some years ago and while if forget most of the details, I clearly remember is serious chit and can put a lot of livestock and people at risk.

This needs to be reported and investigated just on the off chance this guy is doing the wrong thing. If he is using it for his equipment then there will be undeniable evidence of that and the Dept of ag inspector will have a chat to the guy about the weather, the latest gossip in town and be on his way. If the guy is feeding it to the pigs then this too will be evident and the guy will very rightfully be stopped and probably prosecuted. They may even try to trace his product and recall it if possible.

There are some thngs you turn a blind eye to even if it does bend a few rules but this is not one of those things and there is no excuse for it not to be stopped if it is happening.

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Hi guys.. I'm back.. Geeze a week drags when your wife chews the data usage.. Lol..

Interesting read Glort. I'll dig deeper as WVO would be preferred over WMO..

BUT.. One week in. Loving it.. Instant quietness... And a noticeable power increase.. Especially when cold.

Only down fall, take a few more turns to kick, but once going its fine..

ATM I have no noticeable smoke increase or smell.

So far so good

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  • 1 year later...

Hi all.

I have secured 2-3 sources of wvo, and would like to see how you have your processing, filtration and drying setups, setup. I will be procuring my first 100ish liters tomorrow, so looking to get this going asap.

Also, my rig is a td42, after market Turbo and big front mount cooler. Also, I live in Brisbane, so will I need a heat exchanger for the wvo? And will I be able to just run it straight?

Cheers all.

Jbates58

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  • 1 month later...

My processing setup is mainly an all in one although due to the oil I have been getting of late and the fact I don't want to store loads of it due to ( Finally) moving house soon, I have an open top drum I am pre filtering with.  This is just an open top 44 that I got some felt like material the Mrs didn't want any more ( but it was a Lovely shade of purple when she bought it 10+ years ago) that I put in the drum with a deep pocket and secured with a Cheap Tie down strap. 

The drum has a Bung I welded in at the bottom. When the thing is about half full ( as the felt goes about half way down so filtration stops) I pump it out into a holding drum till I'm ready to process. 

The processor is another 44 that is inverted and I have tapped into the large bung hole with an adaptor and that feeds the $80 Pump I got from Bunnings. The output of the Pump has a T piece, one side goes to the tank direct to aerate the oil  ( Like sticking a garden hose atop the water in a swimming pool and creating a stream of air bubbles) and the other side goes to a Blue House water filter with a 5UM element in it then returns to the tank. 

The bottom of the tank has some holes cut in it. One has a fan mounted sucking the air OUT of the tank, the other lets the air in and is the fill hole and the other was so I could make a panel with fittings for the oil to shoot into the tank to dry it and the other is the filtered return.  It is IMPERATIVE to have a fan sucking the air out of the tank. The splashing/ aeration caused by the high pressure stream of oil returning  evaporated the moisture out of the oil. If there is no active air circulation, the air just humidifies and no further drying takes place. I also found ( the hard way) that having the air blowing in is no good either. Don't ask me why, but having the air forced in is MUCH slower for drying than having the air sucked out. Tried the test many times and the results are repeatable and constant. 

I fill the drum, let the oil circulate just through the return for a bit if the weather is cool to warm the oil from the pump and then open the valve for the oil to go through the filter.  If the filtration is very slow or stops fairly quick, either you have putrid oil ( which you won't have if you pre filter it through a shopping bag or material) or there is a bit too much fat and the oil is cool enough to let it block the filter.  If the weather is cold and I know I have wet oil, I usually hit the side of the drum with one of my WVO burners ( 

)   ( 
)  and get the oil up to about 70o. This drives the water off much faster and of course allows it to filter very easily. 

Depending on how wet the oil is to start with, I let the processor run from anything from 3 hours to 30 Min. Once it's going, no need to hang around, it's fine on its own. 
I can do a hot pan test to check how dry the oil is but having done this for 8 years now, I pretty much know by experience. 
I disconnect the hose from the filter at the return point on the drum and then use that hose to pump the oil into either the storage drum or the small 25L drums I use to fill the truck. 


Lots of people whine about how long it takes to much around prepping the oil but it's all in the setup. I'm doing it slower than what I used to atm and I'm also doing a lot of it manually where I used to pump it for exercise.  that being the case, If I spent 30 Min hands on time to produce about 175L of oil, I'd be taking my time.  I do it it stages so it may be a couple of 5 min stints to fill the pre filter tank and then pump it to the holding drum, another 10 to fill the processor and set it going and another 10 to pump it into the small drums. For me it's a hobby but at $250++ I save on buying fuel, it's well worth my time!

I'll try to get some pics of the setup in the next couple of days as I'm ready to do another batch pretty soon. 

 


I wouldn't ( and don't) bother with a HE and I'm in sydney where it's a lot cooler for a lot longer in the year than Brisvegas. I Drove up there last July to shoot a job and didn't change a thing on my truck and never had any problems other than a load of crap Diesel I bought when I mis calculated oil consumption.  The irony of running the truck on rubbish that so many criticise without a problem only to have trouble with fuel that costs the equivalent of gold compared to what I normally use pi$$ed me off no end!

A HE is only of any use once the vehicle has warmed up.  Electric heaters are a complete and utter con. I had an entertaining conversation with a company rep that was pushing the things on a veg forum and being the bastard I am, Finally got the guy to admit, his $300 heaters he had touted so highly were incapable of warming the oil even a 3L Diesel would use more than 3-5o C. IE, completely and utterly useless!  And his heaters were supposed to be the best. YA!
Obviously if you use coolant driven heaters which are the only ones with enough grunt to do anything, they don't work till the engine is warmed up. 

Once the engine is up to temp, the underbonnet temp and hot air off the exhaust will take care of any necessary heating.  What I did do last winter to ensure I didn't get any fats blocking the filter was to replace the OEM filter with one from a Subaru. These are a round metal filter with spigots coming off the top which makes them dead easy to hook up.  I sat the filter right on the exhaust manifold next to the turbo. 

Now most of the pedantic Veg oil keyboard warriors will crap on about over heating the oil with exhaust. Of course like most things, they use flawed mental dreaming to assume their conclusions. I have, like most things, got my hands dirty and knuckles skinned and TESTED it.  I used a length of copper along the down pipes on my other NA 4.2 and clamped it as securely as I could in plenty of places and rant the oil through that.  

Result: The oil was able, at times, to get lukewarm.  There is a big difference between having a pipe sitting at 300oC and transferring that heat into another pipe and then to a liquid that doesn't have a fantastic heat  coefficient to start with.  As such, sticking the fuel filter on the turbo Manifold doesn't cause it to get overly hot either. Probably heat soaks a bit once the engine is stopped but that's more going to be heat radiated through the air than direct convection. 

Today I was Checking the oil etc after I drove the thing about 10 KM and the Filter which is now sitting beside the  Brake booster ( no need for heat in summer) was noticeably warm anyway. I dial my fuel up pretty well at times and the Subaru Filter have no trouble keeping up unlike a lot of others I have tried and last really well. 

I normally recommend running 5% ULP in veg oil because it brings the timing back closer to that of Diesel and thins the oil a bit as well. Most engines, depending on how they are tuned/ where the fueling is, will pick up a bit of power over straight oil and it does make for a bit easier starts in winter when the oil is cold and can be a bit thick.  I'd definitely recommend 5-10% ULP in winter but having said that, I have started my truck at -3 on several occasions and once at -6 on a country trip last year on straight oil and had no problems at all.
  That said, I have been lazy ( and tight) all this summer so have been running straight oil for months.  I run around the suburbs ( endlessly after my kids) as well as having done 300+ Km trips to the country an average of once a month for the last 5 months.  The truck runs fine and I have not have had any fuel related issues. Water pump, power steering pump have started to leak and the alternator died one night coming back, but no running problems. 


Westy,

Are you still running the WMO and how is that/ did that go?
I can get loads of that but like most people with Veg, I'm a bit scared of the unknown. 
I did try some with one of my little industrial engines on my induction generator. It didn't like it. Started off OK but after a few hours running, the thing started smoking a lot. Too much for my liking and the exhaust note had changed noticeably.  I put it back on Bio and after an hour or so it came good again. some people on the Cogen forums said I should have thinned it but the same engine has a lot of hours on straight veg without a problem. 

 

Anyway, be interested to know how you went with it in your truck. 

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