zd30 cranks no start 1401 1403 DTC NATS??

[JoR]

Hello Patrol people,

After 7 yrs of trouble free use and now 380000ks the truck has decided to rest.

Codes 1401 1403 which suggest NATS issue,

2001 ZD30 Di manual  (2005 engine installed)

 

I have cleaned all battery connections and battery is new, did start twice after install of battery but not since. Cranking fast.

I have cracked injector pipe on #1 and fuel is present, cleaned it up and did it again, seems plenty of fuel.

Pressure in filter housing seems normal and doesnt change overnight. 

I changed MAF sensor to one that came in glovebox with car assume its ok.

I did put a bit of start ya bastard down snorkel and it fired up a little so not catastrophic fail I imagine.

I have never seen on dash little red light people mention re NATS

 

I'm not clear on how/what ecu controls on IP? looks like old school pump

Seems odd to have fuel pumping with NATS codes I would of thought that fuel would be cut

 

ANY ideas appreciated, 2 days trying to sort now, no results

Thanks, Jo

[Rumcajs]

G'day,

There is possibility that NATS issue is irrelevant unless you want explain circumstances behind the 2005 engine installation, e.g  did you keep existing ECU and its control system?

Is the replacement motor just "long motor"  complete unit including injection pump, engine harness and engine ECU with immo unit and keys as well or did you have the keys reset at Nissan $tealer...? As 2001 and 2005 control systems differ I'd like to know what has been done.

There is also possibility that IP is has failed but you'd normally get some errors on that even if just generic codes.....

I can give you complete immo system trouble shooting information but if you let me know what is actually in your car now would help narrow it down...

You should see the immo light blinking or be solidly illuminated if not the you have an issue. for the light to work check fuse no 24.

Fuse no 25 for immo unit ignition feed, fuse no 50 constant battery fed to immo unit. 

 

Regards

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Rumcajs

[JoR]

Hi Rumcajs,

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply.

Re the engine, was done prior to purchase, previous owner said same ecu and loom, I don't remember mention of pump, my guess is was drop in donor long incl IP.

No idea on keys or if resetting was done. I have 2, tried both.

Ive never needed to see $tealer and I'd like to keep it that way.

I re checked 24, 25 both good, assume #50 is good, I'll check and notify if blown

Jo

 

 

[JoR]

I couldn't see numbers of fuses in engine bay, manual said 20A which are all good and checked the lot just in case.

Rumcajs,

Is it possible the 1401 1403 codes are showing because IP has been modified to remove Nats system on back of pump and hence why no blinking red light? Maybe codes have been there the whole time? I believe they dont turn engine light on?

Jo

[Rumcajs]

The way it works is that ECM waits for OK from immo unit then send signal to IP when cranking occurs to start fuelling. Normally immo unit is powered up and grounds the little light on top the dashboard in front of the driver to signal what is going on. If it is blinking when key is off and out then it means it is active. On key On it lights up and goes out if everything is OK and engine starts.  The IP is not involved in this case. The other way is to make ECM to not bother with immobilizer but that requires re-mapped ECM.

It is possible that those codes indicate an issue which does not cause the start up issue but MIL lamp would be on too if it is related to engine start. However I will caution here because Nissan is guarding those code well so only $tealer can diagnose if that is indeed an issue unless you have a working copy of Nissan Consult 2,3,4 software and appropriate interface to connect to the truck and run self check on immobilizer unit. If everything is original it is possible that thats what is causing an issue however it is impossible to by-pass unless you obtain NATS emulator control box to fool the ECM.

The injection pump is unfortunately another "lemon" and it has been known to cause starting problems without any codes displayed by the main ECM. Search for VP44 injection pump issues to see how deep that rabbit hole is.  If that is the case you need Bosch scanner which connects directly to injection pump so called K-line interface to see if the pumps ECU reports anything wrong. There are a few tricks to trick the pump ECU or to see if it is indeed pumps ECU faulty by powering the pump standalone and then crank which should make it to start the engine but it will only idle.

Cracking the injector line unfortunately is not reliable method to establish that pump is functioning correctly.  

So yeah not a good prospect I will attach some pages for trouble shooting immobilizer ...EC doc deals with ECM control and EL deals with wiring as well as immo unit 

 

 ec.pdf

el.pdf

Edited April 25, 2022 by Rumcajs

[JoR]

Thanks Rumcajs for those very detailed docs.

I am thinking it may be best to eliminate the IP first as the testing for faults in other areas seems pretty hit and miss and alot of time required.

Could you post the details required to assess if ecu component on pump is not fried. If I can confirm pump is still working and get it to idle then probably worth continuing. If not might be time to move it on.

Regards

Jo

[Rumcajs]

While ago in this thread I posted some info about injection pump on ZD30. This is for people who either live on the edge or know what they're doing.

As to what you need to get the pump ECU to respond you will need to search online. That trick with bypassing ECM was advised by fuel injection specialist in the States (older Dodge Rams used 6 cylinder version of that abomination VP44. So if you search for VP44 trouble shooting you might find it. I can't find that link now its late and I probably have it bookmarked on my other computers not this lappie I'm using now. Remeber its very deep rabbit hole....

Cheers

Edited April 25, 2022 by Rumcajs

[JoR]

Think I will give the hot test of pump a crack, I was a bit confused re the pin positions but now realise pump is installed on left side on the 6 cylinder diesels the blue chip article is talking about. 

If anyone reading this has tried it please let me know, I'm happy living on the edge but rather not fry it if possible!

I will change out my filter and re bleed prior just to be sure.

I'll post the results

Jo

 

[JoR]

Hi Rumcajs, 

Well It didnt run made a click sound upon connection and constant click/buzz after start attempt. Same sounds as when connected to harness but the buzz shuts off soon after start attempt with harness.

So if I did it right the pump has failed. 

Not sure where to from here, Tow it to Nissan I suppose😕

[Rumcajs]

Nah, don't tow it anywhere especially Ni$$an $tealer, it sems you're brave enough so you can pull the injection pump out yourself. It is not that hard to follow the instruction and if you set the motor in right position before removing the pump it is certainly easier to refit it.

There are Bosch/Zexel diesel specialist which can rebuild or do a change over.  I'd would however make sure that it is 100% faulty before taking it out although the mileage suggests it could be.

These pumps suffer greatly from fuel starvation so key is to be fully aware if that is happening.  So do fuel return mod and fit extra fuel lift pump as well if you're replacing the pump and don't forget the injectors too, those can't be rebuilt just replaced and lifetime is not long.

Good luck.

[JoR]

Thanks for your Help Rumcajs,

Been trying to think what your name means, 

Rum can always just sip ??

 

Re my diagnosis of pump failure, I also spoke with Steve at ECPT who said in regard to NATS that if my dash lights cycle as usual being glow plug light etc then not NATS issue, even if no little red light visible?

Checks I have done:

Power to IP key on, yes

Cleaned all Batt conn and new battery

Fires with start ya bastard,  yes

Tried to run with pump hot wired, no good

Checked all fuses, good

retrieved codes 1401, 1403.  possibly unrelated.

swapped out MAF sensor

Cleaned air filter and checked snorkel and intake for blockage

Replaced fuel filter and primed. this seems it may have small leak, after start attempt it can be pressed again. I have done numerous start attempts with constant priming at same time to be sure fuel is up, so I feel that's not stopping it from going??

So I'm not sure of anything I have missed bar having pump scanned but no luck there around my parts Sth Coast NSW inland from Eden.

 

Anything else I can do to be 100% sure, prior to pulling it out or having it towed somewhere to diagnose. I'm definitely up to replacing it myself but would be pretty annoying if it isn't the problem. I'm on about 90% sure its IP

Regards Jo

 

 

[Rumcajs]

Yeah, a bit of conundrum so to speak, in any case to me if that pump has genuine 300K + on it  well due for overhaul so indeed if you wish to continue with ZD30 then having IP rebuilt and injectors replaced it could be the investment for the future. Alternatively engine swap (not with  another ZD30 lemon) like Cummins or Barra/LS scenario with significantly more dough spent but future proofed perhaps. 

Apart from connecting the scanner and reading the actual pump ECU there is nothing else you can do now .  In the previous post I posted a link to the thread where there are instructions howto make your own including software to use. If you succeed making one I'm sure there would be a few ZD30 owners interested.

As to "Rumcajs" nickname well it is easier to have non English nickname on the various (English spoken) forums and thanks to world wide web finding such gems are possible. 

Rumcajs was fictional children's tale "gallant bearded bush ranger"  hero from Czechia....any associations with the "rum" are purely coincidental although word rum is also used in Czech language to identify same alcoholic liquid. 

Regards