Air con leak

[admin]

Found this at very rear of car today...

And

[admin]

My GU has the rear A/C so it looks like its going to be expensive.

[Rumcajs]

There are A/C pipes runing outside to the rear unit unfortunately it is a single piece so the best what can be done is to split the pipe and crimp a hose on to it but I'm not sure if it an ally pipe in that case its gonna be harder to do.... Its a terrible design. And yes it rubs on various chassis obstacles/bracket. probably best left to trusted A/C specialist but you are right its gonna cost a bit.

Cheers

Edited January 31, 2013 by Rumcajs

[Glort]

Is that the aircon pipes at the back/ Top of the tank? 
If so, Looks like it might have rubbed through a line. 

 

You are right, It will be expensive to fix. 
I was talking to some fridgy mates just after Christmas and they were saying how the price of gas had gone up so much due to all this carbon tax Horse Chit that it wasn't worth fixing a simple leak in a domestic system any more.  A couple of them got on to some old gas supplies which was " only" $100/ Kg. Apparently it's well north of that now and there are more " Environmental" tax increases slated to be phased in.  Apparently gas was  like $10/ kg a couple of years back before our enlightened gubbermint wanted to Australia to lead the way down the gurgler or whatever their ridiculous agenda is.  

I'd Guess a system that size will hold close to a couple of kg of gas, so that will be $200 in material costs for however fixes the thing before they do anything else. 

 

AS my mates were talking about with a domestic unit, by the time they go out, find the leak, fix it, test the system, and put the gold dust gas in, They are 3/4 of the way to the price of a new split system that will come with 3 years warranty and be cheaper to run. All well and good except if you take into account that same otherwise perfectly functioning system would have been at least $4-500 cheaper to fix a couple of years ago and now you are Throwing away something that could have given years more service and are expending far more resources on buying a new system. 
Yup, They sure think this stuff through very carefully to make sure it achieves the aims they want. 

 

But look on the bright side, You will be saving the planet shelling out $200 for what should be a $20 or less expense so you can be grateful that we have this save the world tax to do that for you. 
Oh, and while you are getting that reamed out feeling in your backside as you pay through the nose, Please conveniently  forget the fact that all aircon gas in cars was changed  over 10 years ago for the specific purpose of it being more environmentally friendly, the same as the current crop gas used in Domestic/ Commercial systems. 

Of course if you really look into it as I did, You will find something over 86% is being paid back to businesses and families to offset the cost of the tax in the first place ( Yeah, Don't ask me how the Fluck that works??)  And the rest goes to these save the planet projects, none of which are actually identifiable by the gubbermint if you want so know what they are or how the money is being spent.   

They must be administering this fiasco for free because in the Gubbermint budget, they make no allowance for all this money collection, shuffling and payback. 

 

And another bright side for you is that they not only charge you for this gas, they charge you to get rid of it. 
My father owns a wrecking yard and they are all being hassled and threatened that they have to account for where the gas goes in the cars they Wreck  and if they don't reclaim and have receipts from Authorised collection facilities who charge a fortune to take and dispose of the gas, then they face all sorts of fines and no more hassle. 

Of course the minor Detail is, aside from the cost of Buying a reclaim unit and a Cylinder, only licensed Fridgys are allowed to legally use the things or return the gas to the places who take and dispose of it. Their are very heavy fines for unauthorised people using the very simple to operate gear.

Seems now every wrecking yard is supposed to have a licensed Fridgy on staff just to collect the gas from the vehicles they wreck.  Not like there has been a shortage of techs in that game for like 10 years or that you'd be a while getting rush of guys racing over to drain the systems for you.... for another couple of hundred at least.
Of Course it makes you wonder where all the gas is going from old scrapped Domestic and commercial units. 
I'm told by those in the industry that those have infallibly leaked and this is ALWAYS and without exception the cause of failure Which is nice because it then saves them the hassel of reclaim and cost of gas disposal.   

Fortunately my Fridgy mate was able to supply me with a piece of equipment to give the old man which does not require a licence to use and allows him to recover the gas not illegally through a loophole in the stupid idiotic laws. If they come calling on him now with a please explain, they are going to tie themselves up in knots trying to prove he's done anything wrong. 
 

So I'm afraid yes, This simple repair won't be a cheap exercise but the poor bugger doing the job isn't going to be the one bending you over on the cost. 
You can thank Mrs. Dullard and her band of merry green washed for that. 

 

[admin]

Ok, so my air con guy found the problem, my big fuel tank has rubbed against the high pressure hose (the smaller of the two pipes).

 

Nissan was $403.20 for the pipe, but they say I will need the high pressure pipe at $213.20 as they come out together - and get this, they say the chassis needs to be raised to get them out!

 

I was going to take out the pipe and take it to an aluminium welder to fix, but raising the chassis is not somthign im going to even contemplate.

 

I'd pay for the new pipes - but I cant imagine the cost to fit them.

[admin]

In the bottom corner of the pic, you can see where its hitting the fuel tank :-(

 

Here is where it connects to

[admin]

I just wonder if using rubber hose might get me out of trouble here?

 

Anyone know how much pressure is in the high pressure side?

 

Maybe i could clamp on rubber hose and cut out the broken bit.

[Bogmeister]

Cant you just get pirtek of someone to make something that fits without stuffing around with the chassis?

[Rumcajs]

I just wonder if using rubber hose might get me out of trouble here?

 

Anyone know how much pressure is in the high pressure side?

 

Maybe i could clamp on rubber hose and cut out the broken bit.

You can get high pressure A/C hose, it is done all the time so any decent A/C specialist/workshop

will/should have the tools, selection of hoses & fittings to make the line for you, the problem is/could be the access.

The A/C hoses are secured on to a pipe or join fitting by a special crimp clamp which can handle high pressures, you are not gonna get that out of the classic hose clamps.

This shouldn't be that hard to repair at worst you may need to remove the fuel tank to gain access and correct the routing of the pipes. Nothing like aftermarket accessories eh.

Oh and Mr Nissan is just a thief and they probably meant raising the body and not the chassis to get the pipes out as they're fitted on assembly line in to chassis before the body goes on.

Replacing broken A/C pipes with a hoses is common fix as nobody wants to dismantle half a car/truck to remove most of those pipes so a quick fix is to cut and join.

Cheers

Edited February 1, 2013 by Rumcajs

[Glort]

My son had a minor altercation with a turn sign some months back and took out an Ac Pipe.
My aircon mate just cut the damaged section out and flared the end of the existing pipe and did the same to a section of copper to replace the mangled bit. 

They only use flare fittings in domestic and commercial AC so not like it's dodgy or not up to the job.
The thing certainly hasn't shown any signs of leaking in the last few months anyway. 

[Rumcajs]

I'd still think that a hose is probably better in this case, it gives more flexibility in true sense of its meaning. Much better for constant vibration and shakes.

Cheers

[admin]

Ok, so what your saying is a good A/C place should be able to cut out the damaged aluminum pipe and replace with hose... If this is the case it would be great

[Glort]

I'd still think that a hose is probably better in this case, it gives more flexibility in true sense of its meaning. Much better for constant vibration and shakes.

Cheers

Yeah, I think so too. 

Also probably more abrasion and impact damage resistant as well. 

I'd be wrapping it in rubber or something similar and tying it up well out the way and tight. 

My mate was careful to jacket the pipe on my sons car in a couple of places and put little grommeted plastic supports in so the pipe he put in wouldn't rub on the support panel and where it went close to the radiator. He said out of all the times people to ask him to look at their car, it's mainly either a stone fracturing the condenser or a rubbed pipe.

[admin]

OK, ive been to quite a few Auto Electricians and A/C places and also to Nissan.

 

Basically noone wants to touch it, except Nissan - who will do it, but its going to cost me a bomb.

 

One bloke said he did the crimp fix for a Nissan a few years ago and it ended up at fair trading because after a few months the crimps would leak - He said the pipe is so bloody thin and it vibrates etc causing eventual failure. He ended up buying the part from nissan and the customer paid for fitment.

 

As we cant run the A/C at all I need it fixed.

 

So it looks like I will need to go with Nissan :-(

[Rumcajs]

OK, ive been to quite a few Auto Electricians and A/C places and also to Nissan.

 

Basically noone wants to touch it, except Nissan - who will do it, but its going to cost me a bomb.

 

One bloke said he did the crimp fix for a Nissan a few years ago and it ended up at fair trading because after a few months the crimps would leak - He said the pipe is so bloody thin and it vibrates etc causing eventual failure. He ended up buying the part from nissan and the customer paid for fitment.

 

As we cant run the A/C at all I need it fixed.

 

So it looks like I will need to go with Nissan :-(

 

TBH I'd rather run brand new aftermarket  A/C hoses all the way from the engine bay A/C compressor to the back than pay Nissan a cent/dime. All you gonna replace it with the same shitty thin pipes which will again rub on the long range fuel tank somewhere because the Nissan experts are going to F it up again.

But I'd guessed you wanna have it done so you are going to fork out a fortune what 2 grand for 2 pipes and how much for labour $$$$ so you can have A/C fixed because aftermarket people are scared. Nothing like incompetent f withs.  Good luck with it.

Cheers

Edited March 25, 2013 by Rumcajs

[admin]

At this stage cost is looking to be just under a grand. Shitty, but better than being hot.

[admin]

OK, so after going back to Nissan, things got a WHOLE LOT more complicated. The original part is about 4 ft long and comprises of both the HIGH and LOW pressure hoses -- welded together by mounting brackets. Nissan have changed the design, the new replacement comes in 6 parts - 3 for the high and 3 for the low pressure lines. Total cost well over a grand in parts. CRUNTS.

 

I spent all day driving around trying to find someone to either remove current component and weld (told it was to thin, would probably stuff it) or cut n join using some sort of olive connector or other solution. As the pipe is so damn small, no one knew how to go about it and noone wanted to touch it.

 

I decided it might be easier to simply isolate the rear condensor so that I could at least get the front going... So I went to a wreckers looking for the two pipes which connect to the firewall from a Nisaan without a rear AC (as they would allow me to connect the front condenser without connecting the rear). I could only find a Nissan with damaged pipes. I went to another wrecker and they had the rear part - on a patrol and it appeared undamaged.

 

They said they would remove it for me - complete and undamaged for $125. SOLD.

 

The patrol had a rear end crach which sent the diff off at an angle, so it made it easier for them to get the piping out, But it still required them to undo the chassis bolts and jack it up. Two blokes, 25 min later I had my part.

 

One of them seemed keen on the idea of weekend work.. So we struck a deal and he will be installing the pipe work on Saturday morning for me at home. It will involve a few chassis bolts and a spring removal etc, but he knows what he is doing - So im happy, hes happy and Nissan dont get any of my money.

 

I'll take pics and post them shortly.

[Rumcajs]

Good on ya mate, screw Nissan stealers/thieves.

Cheers

[Glort]

TBH I'd rather run brand new aftermarket  A/C hoses all the way from the engine bay A/C compressor to the back than pay Nissan a cent/dime. All you gonna replace it with the same shitty thin pipes which will again rub on the long range fuel tank somewhere because the Nissan experts are going to F it up again.

But I'd guessed you wanna have it done so you are going to fork out a fortune what 2 grand for 2 pipes and how much for labour $$$$ so you can have A/C fixed because aftermarket people are scared. Nothing like incompetent f withs.  Good luck with it.

Cheers

 

 

I think the term air CON in this instance is a very valid term. 

Re doing the whole thing in flexible hose would have been no biggie at all for any fair dinkum  Fridgie. Like Hydraulics  you could get the ends crimped on the hose  and just fit it up. It's not that expensive and if the hose and crimps will hold up to the Vibrations, pressures and heat of Hydraulics  there sure as heck wouldn't be much problem with a bit of gas running through it at 100 PSI. The connections between the Compressor and the hard lines are always flexible hose anyway. 

For the price of the new Nissan Piping, it would want to have a 100 yr Warranty. Probably more like 100 Meters from the stealer ship. 

 

Have you thought about what you are going to do to stop the replacement pipe suffering the same fate? Extra brackets, rubber insulation?

If the pipe is so thin, stress fractures would be a concern as well.  

what are these places going to charge to re gas the system?

[admin]

After speaking to a stack of people, the conclusion I came to was that the high pressure line is so small, that there is no way to join the pipe to hose - and replacing the entire pipe was not possible because one end had a custom nissan pad on it. Now, someone somewhere may know how to do it, but certainly not the people I spoke to, I spent 9 hours over two days driving around speaking to as many mechanics, auto elec's, and hose repair blokes i could find.

 

In the end, the part from the wreakers was fitted in 3 hours by a young bloke who worked at the wreakers - He quoted me 400 cash for a Saturday job... Only took him 3 hours, so yay him.

 

The total price for the repair was as follows:

 

1. $270 - Attempt to diagnose leak - First attempt to find leak failed, but regases A/C as it was holding a vaccume.

2. $125 - Part from wreakers

3. $400 - Labour to fit.

4. $220 - Dryer supply/fit and test/regas

Total: $1015.00

 

Its been 24 hours and no sign of leaks and the car gets cold.. Just in time for winter.

 

I didnt get pictures of the fitting of the part, but it basically involved the following.

 

1. Drop passenger side spring/shock

2. Undo four chassis bolts

3. Jack up - taking care to identify bits joined to both car and chassis - like mudflaps which were bolted to the car body and the kaymar bumper which is part of the chassis.

4. Remove part.

5. Install part.

6. Drop chassis back down.

7. Redo bolts.

8. Beer.