Well it ran.. A solid hour but backfiring every minute or so.. The way I look at it is with the cuts facing down it creates the turbulence you were talking about.

I will cut down the chamber (thinking 80-100mm lower) and put the main pipe to the centre and down..

Once it's going it roars... Live it..

Might have the whole house on WMO soon. Heat and car...

Might have the whole house on WMO soon. Heat and car...

And people will think you are a nut and say why do you bother mucking round with that?

You'll know the feeling of satisfaction of a bit of independence and self sufficiency will be reward enough.

One of the most satisfying comments I ever heard about my veg adventures was from my well heeled and stuck up brother in law some years back. He laughed his arse off the first time took my old merc over there. A couple of years later he was looking to sell his Merc Antidote for mid life Crisis because it was costing him too much in fuel for his daily commute to the city and running round.

It was around family dinner someone asked how the merc was going and if it was still on oil. In a tone completely devoid of his typical self appreciation he said " When you first showed me that and told me it ran on Cooking oil I laughed at you having this old Diesel merc when I had just got my new petrol one. I'm selling mine because the fuel cost is nearly sending me broke. You're keeping yours and it's barely cost you a cent. Who's laughing now?"

Even other family members later remarked on the gravity of that comment!

well im a happy chappy

dont mind the smoke coming off the drum.. just paint burning.. it cleared up after an hour..

With Mk1 it stopped burning with about 1/2 a liter left in the bottom. But with Mk2 and it's smaller chamber it burnt 100% of the oil.

Still have a good layer of soot in the flu, and it isn't glowing yet.. I still think I'm down on the air flow.

Will try a new thing Im thinking of which is 2 1' ball valves into a 2' outlet.

This is going to look one mean burner..

Edited August 5, 201213 yr by BigGQWesty

Well Done.

Looks like a big improvement.

I think you need to put more holes in the secondary section. It's roaring which is good but I think needs more constant draft through the flue.

ne thing I picked up on straight away is the crackling sound of boiling water in the oil.

Be real careful of that. If the water drops out and coagulates as it will tend to do in hot oil, If can flash to steam and create BIG flareups and like throwing water into a pan of burning oil, can spray everywhere as well.

I did this the other week. Got Some old oil slops and was burning that for a bit. I think I pumped into the water layer and when I put it in th lit burner, I heard it start to spit straight away. It hissed and bitched for about 10 Min then I heard the pops getting louder and more intense although it slowed for a bit like an animal getting ready to strike. And strike it did. A few thuds I felt through the concrete and some eruptions that pumped about a litre of half burnt veg out of the holes in the burner. The fire completely blew itself out into a still hissing but smoking, stinking mess.

Wet oil will also nor burn properly I think the energy required for the evaporation combined with the escaping steam interupt the burning process and throw everything off. Seems to in all my burners be they forced air or passive.

Here's one of my simple forced air burners.

This is another one that pushes out a bit more heat.

till have to do a vid of the rocket Burner. That one is scary!

Holy duck shit batman.. 12L/H!!! That'll warm ya water. Sounds like a turbine... Lol

Father inlaw was talking about a rocket burner but with wood. Sounds interesting. But a weird concept..

So more holes in the flue it is..

And thanks for the hint of the water. I thought it was the impurities. So of to resting it is. Hopefully I can get a resting container today.

Edited August 5, 201213 yr by BigGQWesty

And we're glowing.. Have been fiddling with the hole pattern on the rear...

And although I found a triangle pattern works best, I can't shut it down...

It seams to be working fine with just the 1' ball valve and I can control it..

So tomorrow night I'll weld all the holes up, cut more slots in the secondary as its still smoking a bit and I have flames jumping half a foot out the top and see how we go..

Also no crackle tonight? Maybe it was the left over wash out water??

Edited August 6, 201213 yr by BigGQWesty

And another for shits and giggles

Mate, that's excellent!

As for the flame coming out the top, I have never figured that one out.

I have built a load of different burners and how to make the flame burn in the chimminey, almost no matter how long it is has escaped me.

I have studied Gas turbine burners as they work on a real short burning chamber for their output and I think you need pressurised air and a bit of a pressurised chamber as well.

If you are going to use this for a shed heater, I wouldn't worry about the extra flame. If you put a length of flue horozontally and then duct it up and out, it will be more heat transfer area to warm the shed.

Alternately, You could put another bottle on top but put a baffle in the middle to spread the flame to the outside to get more surface area again and then take the flue up. I saw that somewhere on the web some time back on a wood burner and it looked very effective. Another guy took it a step further and had a gas bottle a little way up the flue of his wood burner. He had welded in 4 3" pipes horizontally so the output from the wood burner hit and heated these tubes before going up the flue.

The guy put and electric fan behind the tubes and you could see the extra heat that would have pumped out.

I think I'll buy myself a Plasma cutter and maybe a TIG for Christmas so I can get a bit more serious and professional with my backyard mucking around.

I was thinking along the lines of a tertiary burner. I was going to double the secondary and then add another lot of slots 1 meter higher. So it'll look like near Swiss cheese... Lol

I just have to wait untill the weekend to go sorce the flu.

IMO, although a tig and plasma cutter are nice there not really needed. Start with a nice mig welder. You can run alloy and stainless in migs. If your intentions are to do exotic materials get a pure argon bottle aswell as the argosheild (mig gas).

I'm intending on building a snorkel, rear bar and Lang range fuel tank with no more than a 5' and stick welder. You just have to take your time and be clean. TIG does take a bit to learn, and plasma needs a decent air compressor to back it. Just something to think about..

Just something to think about..

Yeah, It is. Especially when it comes from someone who knows.

I do have a cheapy MIG. Unfortunately it's a lot the worse for wear after lending it to a bunch of people. It never came back the same for some reason.

I might get it looked at and a new torch put on it or just buy something decent all together. I was thinking of a TIG because I could never properly weld things like 44 gallon drums on the bottoms and the sides without blowing them to all hell. I can run very decent welds on the thicker stuff that look text book. while I'm sure my lack of skill is a factor on the light stuff, I'm also doubly sure that the machine I have is a bit limited in it's ability in that respect as well.

Oxy I can weld anything but until I can find one of those welders that run on water to make Hydrogen gas at a decent price, the bottle rent puts gas welding out of my reach.

My old man has plasma that has it's own compressor. I think he said it was about $2k. He had another one before but like you say, it ran the compressor ragged and he had a good industrial one not one of those noisy Chinese things. He got an old gas tank out of a car and ran a line to that and pumped it up as well to give him more air capacity before he started.

He doesn't seem to have any problems with the new one.

I had a mates MIG and it was just awesome. You can cut a hole in seconds in even thickwall Fire hydrant pipe or cut sheet like it was done on a gullitine or in any shape you want. You can cut where you could never get a grinder or a saw.

Sooo much better! I will have to get me a plasma even if it means replacing the compressor I have that is literally about 60 years old!

Any MIG brand you reccomend?

I was thinking along the lines of a tertiary burner. I was going to double the secondary and then add another lot of slots 1 meter higher. So it'll look like near Swiss cheese... Lol

If you can, do that maybe on a bit of scrap or a short piece you can tack in or take out.

I have tried that a few times before and it just seemed to make the flame go higher. It dosent seem to make the fire burn out better in the stack, just give it more velocity.

I'd be interested to see how it works for you and I may have missed something but just giving you a heads up in case it doesn't work and you don't want to waste a good bit of pipe.

One thing you could try is to do the holes and then put a SLIGHT restriction on the top of the flue to slow the flame down and compress it slightly in the stack. Something like just a strip of metal on the top of the flue would be enough to trial and see what happens.

I'm sure there are rules and principals of combustion that apply to what we are doing and someone that knows them would be able to tell us what to do or where we are going wrong straight off. Unfortunately I have never been able to find anything basic and simplified to learn from . I like playing with fire and burners but what I have seen of the science of combustion, it's as complicated and annoying as maths when you get into it at high levels.

Well I'll guess we'll see tonight how much if a difference it makes.

Holes have been slotted so there are double now..

And stuff it. I'll stick the tertiary burners there to.. The flu was free... Lol

As for a welder. I say stick to your brand name ones. WIA, BOC, CIG. If you feel the urge Lincon or Fronius are top line, but a price tag to match... As I said, expensive doesn't mean better.

One option is a small inverter stick tig machine. That's what I have but minus the tig torch.

Options are endless, just think about your needs.

Well... FAIL....

I added double to the secondary burner and added 1/2 the secondary another 600mm up the flu. And I also welded the holes in the rear so only the ball valve is supplying air..

Well boy is it susceptible to wind.. If you fart I recon it would go out... Lol.. But it also only burnt for 15 mins and died.. And that's with a liter in it...

But while it was running it was blowing more smoke than before. But I could see the tertiary working well, the flame was reaching it but not burning past it.. So it's looking ok so far..

So I don't think my flu is the issue.. I think the primary is not burning well enough.. So I'm going to implement my next induction idea once I scorce the parts threw the rest of the week.

Till then. Happy tinkering..

Edited August 7, 201213 yr by BigGQWesty

In the mean time, just for fun, get hold of a vaccuum cleaner and reverse it and give the thing a shot of air down the valve.

I have tired this on mine though the holes and it actually went out. On yours because of the single hole and the angle you have it, the thing may burn like mad and heat up like never before.

I was at Dinner with the brother in law last night and I was sitting here thinking there was something I wanted to ask him and couldn't remember.

I wanted him to get me some gas bottles and old Kegs. They come in to his work and they have to set them aside till they get a heap to take away for disposal being pressure vessels.

I want the kegs to make a Retort for cracking engine oil etc but cut down a bit they would make one hell of a burner like this!

Even better, put a 2" air Pipe in the side and replace the valve section with a 3" outlet and you would have one serious arse pressure Burner!

I think we need to get some others in and have a competition for most powerful veg burner.

Who can be the first to build a burner to demolish 25L of oil in 15 min?

For those wanting to get in on the fun, My reccomendations are to start off with a leaf blower, a 1/3rd HP water pump or better, a good strong steel tank, and a wide clear space with a good distance to anything flammable like Houses, vehicles, trees etc and a silver foil flame proof suit.

Nothing like getting up close and personal with 1000Kw of heat output!

Trust me, 200Kw is substantial enough!

After that we can see who can boil an IBC full of water in the shortest time.

Your on for shits and giggles hay..

But back to sensible talk I've got a couple of other ideas I'm going to try along side the 2 stage burner.. But I wanna keep them close for a lil bit.

Just a teaser. These are for the shed heater.. Not the city heater.. Lol

Now Glort I was thinking tonight that your using veg oil in your burner are you?

This is probably why my unit isn't burning cleanly as im using motor oil..

I haven't put much Motor oil through my Burners, I find it terrible messy, staining, stinking stuff that is soooo much harder to clean up the inevitable spills than veg is. I can play with veg all day, be near covered in it and come in and have a shower and Ll is weel. With motor oil it takes me a couple of days just to get the black stains out of my hands.

Anyway, If you are going to use motor oil it shouldn't matter the how clean your burn is. It's a matter of tuning. For a certain amunt of a certain fuel a certain amount of air is required for it to combust clean. Given that engine oil has about 10% more energy value than Veg, I would guess that more air would be required to burn it as well.

There are lost of people on the net burning WMO with little more than a very light haze if that. I'm not all together sure this burner will do that due to mixing and efficiency considerations. To get a 100% clean burn you may need say 120% air or at least the thing will have to run an excess of air.

My burner has a light bit of smoking but I don't worry about it. by the time it's 3-6 feet out of the flue it's dissipated enough so you can't see it. Often times you have to be standing in the right spot and have the light at the right angle to see it. Good enough for me!

I reckon if you can get your lower section to glow and a decent flame above the upper holes in your flue, you should be able to tune the thing for a pretty clean burn. The primary Holes or valve in your case should basicaly be the throttle of how hard the thing runs, The secondary and maybe tertiary holes should be like the mixture screw on a carby.

By looking at the pics of what you have I would be thinking some more secondary holes would help clean up the burn. I think the "tune" of the thing will also be influenced by the final setup. For instance, if you ducted the flue into one of those bottles and then had another section of flue going out through your roof or wall, what would change the draft an the way the thing burnt and how clean. If you add another 8ft of flue to what you have now, the draw could be much higher, create a much faster gas speed and draw more air in. This could possibly create a negative pressure in the flue starving the flame of oxygen or it could cause a turbulence to mix it better than before and subsequently burn cleaner.

In any event, the WMO is not the problem in itself, it's tuning the burner for the fuel you are using.

I'd probably try to get it running clean now and leave room for more holes if needed in the final setup and see how you go from there.

:0)

So you done any more with your heaters westy?

I picked up a Blower yesterday that will blow the nits clean out of your hair and the fleas out of the dog.

Was actually funny, she walked through the air blast and took about 5 steps sideways trying not to get off balance.

I have a couple of big fire extinguisher bottles to use as burners so just planning how I'll set this one up. Not sure what to do with it.

It's one thing to be able to create obscene amounts of heat, it's another thing to put that heat to work.

I could use it for the pool heater but this thing is going to do at least 600Kw I reckon and probably more full tilt and I don't have any heat exchangers capable of near sinking that sort of output.

I was thinking of making a jet type burner and reckon with a 3" outlet I could still have a jet like flame shooting out of the thing and developing thrust.

Whatever I do, I reckon at full tilt it's going to be hot, loud and scary.

Ba Glort, with the newborn only 6 weeks out I've been flat out renovating rooms, furniture and hitting the tracks...

But I have got an old vacuum cleaner as my air sorce, a small 4ltr gas bottle as the feeder.

So for the moment it's on hold as is the house heater which has stalled at 70%.

Sent from a device which doesn't always agree with my thumbs...

Ohhh dear.

A newborn.

You should have sought advise in the first place mate. You could have bought her a cat or a dog or a horse or an elephant for that matter. Any or all would have cost less in the long run and been less frustrating and taken less of your time!

They aren't bad till they get to about 10, then they know everything there is to know and the stress really starts.

Take heed of this bit of advise now.....

Do up the shed while you have time and put in a nice comfy bed and a little fridge etc so you can move in there when the new one moves into your house. You'll thank me for the decent nights sleep you'll get and the fact you are still able to function.

The women are funny, Right now your Mrs is walking around saying " I just wish it would hurry up and arrive". When it does, she'll be more like " I just wish I could shove it back in there and get some peace and quiet and rest!"

They are never happy I tell you. Just be supportive and remind her, she wanted a damn kid not you, now she has one so she should be happy!

As for the burners, I might try and cobble another one up for the big blower in the next couple of days. My mate emailed me today and wants to cook up about 800L of Veg oil that is very wet to make bio. The plan is to get some 44's and boil the oil in them to remove the water. It's not the most efficient way of doing it but with this dirty, food bit filled wet slop, there isn't really any other way to handle it in Qty.

I'll unleash the beast to get it on the boil then turn it down so it doesn't over boil everywhere. Sometimes when we boil this stuff up it has something in it, maybe dish washing liquid, that foams and overflows everywhere. Hopefully this stuff isn't like that or we will be sunk.

Once it's boiled, the blower will be helpful to blow air over the drums to cool them from the 200o + C temp they will be at so we have a chance of pumping the stuff into the reactor without melting everything.

If I were going to do this regularly ( not that I would!) I'd get a 400L water heater tank, strip the insulation off and brace it for strength and attach a vac pump so I could pull the water out at a lower temp. Much easier to get better quality oil like I normally do but this lot was given to my mate with a description that was lacking in some " accuracy".

I'll try to remember to make a vid when it's Roaring/ boiling away.

This is no.2 so been threw that already. I Exhausted the dog, cat, house, car, rings, wedding, holiday, camping, boat cruze, another car options a long time ago... Lol

As for the heater, sounds unreal.. I think I believe I'm at an unfair advantage though.. WMO has more energy than WVO.. So I should get more heat for less fluid..

And I have my 44 drum. See how quickly I can melt it...

Sent from a device which doesn't always agree with my thumbs...

I think I believe I'm at an unfair advantage though.. WMO has more energy than WVO.. So I should get more heat for less fluid..

And I have my 44 drum. See how quickly I can melt it...

I accept your challenge!

So here is the latest Fire Breather.

It was running about half the air supply pipe Diameter it should have been and the fuel was probably less than 1/3rdthe flow the thing could handle but it gives you a rough idea of what the thing can do.

The pissy camera mic didn't pick up the sound real good. I didn't want to go back and find my good video mike but it would have been worth it to really get the true sound of the roar this thing makes.

If I remember I'll dig it out and take it tomorrow when the beast goes to work on some '44's full of wet Veg oil.

So over to you now Westy, lets see what you got!

Hell yea.. That looks insane. But you have lost me in the design. Could you draw up a diagram for it?

Sent from a device which doesn't always agree with my thumbs...

My computer hasn't been updating the latest posts so I didn't see this till just now.

The design is simply a fire extinguisher bottle with an air inlet about 1/4 of the way up from the bottom to get the swirl effect.

On the top of the bottle. Where the flame exits I put a bit of pipe larger than the neck of the bottle to create a venturi effect. This allows air between the bottle next and the pipe and the bit of 90o bend sits on that. The over size pipe allows secondary air to get the flame to burn shorter and more completely.

Sorry I can't draw a diagram, I'm infinitely better with a camera than a pencil or brush.

I did take the thing to my mates place to heat up some drums of veg oil to boil off the water. With the thing still choked down a bit in the inlet side, We managed to bring a 44 to the boil in 17 minutes. Actually it was a little less because the oil was sitting at 110 when we looked at the time. My mate had quite a bit of old engine oil around so I threw that in and it certainly burnt well. One lot was abut 50% Biodiesel from where he had been washing out his engine and I put that with some more oil to make about a 20% Bio mix. Having it thinner and warmer allowed the fuel to run through much faster so I was able to get the thing to run pretty hard.

My mate had quite a bit of this wet slop oil and was expecting a long drawn out day of trying to dry it but was amazed at how quick we were able to get this stuff dried. At one stage we had a drum up to 120o and being a bit wary of an eruption of the water in the oil boiling all at once, we backed the thing right down. We did 3 drums of oil all up and it wasn't much trouble at all.

The burner was just aimed at the side of the drums so there was a lot more heat going to waste than was actually being put into the oil. If we had to do this regularly, we'd encase the drum itself, up the efficiency and really get the thing cooking up fast!

It was good to be able to handle and use this stuff we thought was otherwise going to be way too much time and effort. We didn't measure the fuel burn suffice to say one would want to be fitting up at least a 60 L drum rather than the 25 I was using if one were wanting to walk away from the thing for a decent amount of time.

I'm thinking about an inverted design with the flame tube running up the centre of the extinguisher bottle so I can invert the thing. I have pulled out a lot of scrap ally and copper from my junk pile and I'll get more for it if it's melted in one lump than in it's original mixed form.

I'm thinking of a downwards flame burner so I can make a furnace where I put the raw material in and it is melted and runs off leaving the steel etc behind. I was thinking of doing this with some engines From my old mans wrecking yard as well but I discovered they are so light and wih the steel components, it probably isn't worth the effort.

Then again.......