I think i will take the car for a drive first for at least 30 min to get it up to temp.

 

In 30 Min you could just put a metal bucket over a good campfire and probably have hotter water by the time you circulated when you came back and it would definitely be cheaper on fuel.  

The heat output from the running engine is not going to be a lot so I can't see increasing the revs doing much. The circulation should be sufficient at idle. 

 

 

For those looking at installing a shower, you would be far better off just buying a common 30 Plate FPHE and using that as the heat exchanger. 

With the engine up to temp you would definitely get a hot shower in one pass.

 

I would suggest being careful as it's likely to be far too hot till you take some of the heat out of the engine and it warms up again. WIth FPHE efficiency being well into the 90's, you are only going to see a few degrees less in the shower temp than the engine coolant you are pumping through the hot side at the same rate. 

I'm taking an educated guess but I would be surprised if a wet coil HE in this application would be lucky to do 30% efficiency. 

So why do they sell the Glinds and various copies? Longevity maybe? I did notice a difference in temp by increasing the idle upto say 2500 or so.

So why do they sell the Glinds and various copies? Longevity maybe? I did notice a difference in temp by increasing the idle upto say 2500 or so.

 

My guess is cost. 

FPHE's aren't expensive now days but wet coils are far cheaper, especially if you make them yourself. Lower cost = more profit. 

Wet coil HE"s are far cheaper to buy commercially than FPHE's. Anyone can make a Wet coil HE, I made one for heating veg oil that cost about $20 even though it is complete over kill for what it has to do.  You don't need anything special to make this kind of HE. I know one company making HE's for showers and Veg oil heating makes their own, probably to order. 

 

The outer casing of the Glind is plastic. Having those made in volume is going to make them cheap as chips.

OTOH, FPHE"s are always more expensive and are a specialist operation to weld together as well.  They require pressing of materials that are not easily handled, they generally use stainless steel or titanium plates and are also usually welded with copper or stainless, not something like yellow tip Bronze you can use for copper. Specialist tools and skills required. Definitely not a backyard operation to even get one to stick together let alone work properly. 

 

Another reason for the Glinds using the wet coil design may be instalation.  Yours was just inserted along a coolant line. Neat, straightforward, not a lot of space required.  FPHE's aren't as easy to position nor are they as easy to understand how to hook them up. I have done quite a few FPHE's for people in cars and it's amazing how people can get bamboozled when something is counter intuitive although still hammer simple. 

As for longevity, in this case I can't see a difference but under extreme use, the FPHE will always outlast a Wet coil simply through the materials used. 

If one were running  salt water for instance through the HE, again the FP would still be going way after the wet coil had corroded it's guts out. 

Another advantage of the FPHE is they will work to as low as 1o difference between fluids. Wet coils generally won't do anything less than 5o Difference. Not that 1o matters here, it's more of a extrapolation of efficiency. 

 

As for increasing the idle, I would suggest that that is more to do with the inefficiency of the unit although it is flow related.  I built a wet Coil HE and where ultimate temp output is concerned, the thing is at least 99% efficient because The flow and volume on the hot side is about 12x+ of the fluid being heated. It just works by brute force basically.  Once you start bringing the Heating fluid and the fluid to be heated more into line with the relevant flow rates, efficiency becomes important.  If the flow through the engine is less than the flow through the cold side of the HE, then increasing the flow on the hot side would be needed. 

Conversely, if only 30% of the heat on the hot side is being transferred to the cold side, then you are going to need at least 3 times the flow to get them near equal just by simple physics. 

2500 seems high to me to have the engine just sitting there revving away. 

One other thing I think is relevant to the HE Glind is using.... They say they have been making these things 25 years. No doubt they are all tooled up and have everything made to suit this design From fittings to packaging.  25 years ago FPHE's were an arm and a leg so it's easy to see why they didn't use them then. 

Today if they wanted to go to a new design, It would no doubt cost the company a bomb in everything from tooling onwards and I'm guessing they don't sell a million of these things a year.  Even if they said new and improved and showed the thing was now a one pass system and did away with preheat,  I don't see suddenly their sales are going to shoot skyward because they came up with a better mousetrap. Their market is limited and being in essentially the luxury market, I'll bet like so many businesses in that area, they have been thankful to stay solvent let alone anything else. 

I have no doubt they are aware of their limitations and that FPHE"s would do a superior Job.  If it were my company however, I think I'd be doing the same thing they are, keeping costs low and not investing anything into equipment I didn't have to.

That's not to say however that there is not a better way of achieving the result their products set out to do. I know beans about their sales or company profits but I can take a good guess. based on this I think they would be mad to Change their product and incur the costs of doing that when their market is going to be both limited and struggling at this time. 

 

Let me also make it clear I am not bagging the glinds per se, Their pumps and fittings all seem to have a lot of thought put into them and they seem to strive for quality.  I just don't think  The HE they are using is large or efficient enough for the purpose they are putting it to.  

To me, having to pre warm the water is a real drawback. having to rev the engine above 1500 is a drawback as well. 

I think both of these things could be overcome with a FPHE that can be had for half the cost of the glinds. 

 

From what I can find, Helton, Bushranger and Twine all use the same sort of HE> I found a set up on flea bay that uses the FPHE but the hoses and definitely the pump looked dodgy as. I think the ultimate solution would be to order a Glind system without their HE and substitute a FPHE like This one.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Flat-30-Plate-Heat-Exchanger-WVO-SVO-biodiesel-fuel-heater-FPHE-Wort-Brewing-/271192835075?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f245a4403&_uhb=1#ht_500wt_1200

You would have plenty hot showers and a reliable system as well. 

 

Glort - You mention the heater setting.

I was under the impression that the heater setting makes NO difference in the later models.

 

To quote their website: "Turn on heater control in your vehicle (if fitted. Vehicles built after 1997 do not have heater control valves, so moving the heater will not effect shower temperature)."

 

So is this true? Cause I certainly didnt use the system with the heater on..

Some Vehicles use taps which stop the water flow, some don't .I'm not sure if there was an absolute cut off year where every manufacturer stopped using them. 
If you got any heat at all I'd say you are right and yours does not have one.  If it did, there would be no heat at all. 

Interesting. I have T'd in my HE to the heater circuit not realising there was no tap/valve for the heater (99 GU).  That's a pain, I can't use a tap to stop water going through the HE anymore if I plump it all inline.  

P.S Thanks to RCA at Wyoming for the install. They did a good job, nice and neat and the hose connectors are awsome.

Where did they end up putting your flow jet pump in your install?

You can see it in the last picture (in the post with the install pics on page 1).. Its a little hidden, but you can see it next to the water bottle and to the left of the radiator (drivers side)

Edited May 8, 201312 yr by admin
added pic with arrow to pump

You can see it in the last picture (in the post with the install pics on page 1).. Its a little hidden, but you can see it next to the water bottle and to the left of the radiator (drivers side)

Ah nice. Cheers for that. Didn't see it on the first look..unfortunately I have a big PWR radiator, it may not like it. Ill look tomorrow...

Its tight in their... If your radiator is wider, it will probably not fit.. Other option is behind bull bar somewhere. The current location is good because its out of the weather/rocks etc but it would get a bit of heat.. Im not sure whats worse.

Ok - so winter camping trip on the bridle track is now complete. I had one shower while I was there.

 

The water in the river was freeking cold.

 

I learnt that my pickup hose at about 3.5m was simply not long enough, I had the Patrol to close to the water, and at a funny angle, so getting in and out of the car while it was here was a pain.

 

I drove the car non stop for an hour before having the shower, and used the hand throttle to keep it at about 2500RPM while showering.

 

RESULT: With the shower head fully on (no restriction) the water was cold, BUT tollerable. If i restricted the flow down, I could get the water hot, but thats a pain in the arse. I want hot water and lots of it. You get pritty damn smelly after a few days without a shower!

 

I have a friend who has a similar setup in a LPG Landcruiser and the water from his comes out fast and hot.. Maybe its due to the engine temp and the water flow through the heater hoses - Im not sure.

 

But my setup aint hot enough for me.

Doesn't sound encouraging mate. Noting I have a setup similar to yours, I'm guessing I will have the same issues. I will also post something after the desert trip.

 

I have a friend who has a similar setup in a LPG Landcruiser and the water from his comes out fast and hot.. 

 

 

Does his system use the same glind HE or something different?

Given you are unhappy with the temp from yours, it would be really interesting for you to install a 30 plate FPHE and see if it made a difference. 

Pitty I don't have one or i'd send it to you to try it.